Unlock Career Growth with a Digital Leadership Edge

In this episode of the Thrive Careers Podcast, host Olajumoke Fatoki engages with Esther Obafemi, an award-winning digital transformation leader, to discuss the essential skills needed for success in a digitally transformed world. They explore how mid-career professionals can pivot into leadership roles, the importance of adaptability, continuous learning, and networking, and strategies to overcome feelings of overwhelm in a rapidly changing environment. Esther emphasizes the significance of digital literacy, strategic thinking, and leadership in driving business growth and transformation. In this conversation, Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi and Olajumoke Fatoki explore the essential themes of leadership, personal branding, and overcoming barriers in the digital landscape. They discuss the importance of belief in oneself, the power of networking, and the necessity of business acumen for mid-level professionals aspiring to leadership roles. The conversation emphasizes the role of personal branding in leadership development and the common barriers professionals face in adapting to digital change, such as fear and resistance. They also highlight the importance of organizational support in fostering a culture of continuous learning and digital transformation. In this conversation, Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi and Olajumoke Fatoki discuss the critical role of leadership in driving digital transformation, the future trends professionals should prepare for, and the importance of balancing career and personal life. They emphasize the need for adaptability in a rapidly changing digital landscape and share insights on personal growth, mentorship, and the significance of data storytelling in the digital age.

Transcript

All right. Welcome, welcome beautiful people to the Thrive Careers Podcast, your go-to show for professionals looking to build thriving careers in today's dynamic world. I am your host, Olajumoke Fatoki, and today's episode is all about staying competitive in the digitally transformed world.

Our guest today is someone who truly understands this landscape. And trust me when I say this, because I know Esther, I have worked with her. She understands this terrain. She has walked the talk and you know, she's bringing all of the experience on the show today. Let me give you a brief about Esther. Esther is an award-winning digital transformation leader with nearly two decades of experience driving business excellence across multiple multinational organizations.

She specializes in strategic planning, marketing, sales, and digital innovation. She's been helping businesses scale in this digital age. A CIO Africa influential woman in digital, Esther has led go-to market strategies, brand growth, and high-performing teams, delivering measurable impact. She also serves as a board member and a non-executive director.

guiding organizations in leadership development and digital transformation. Today, Esther will be sharing insights on the essential skills for success, how mid-career professionals can pivot into leadership roles, and what the future of digital transformation holds for careers. So if you're looking to future-prove your career, I can tell you this episode is for you.

Esther, welcome to the Thrive Careers Podcast.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (01:53.705)
Thank you so much, Jumoke It's really a honour to be here. Thank you for having me. You look really beautiful. It's good to see you again.

Olajumoke Fatoki (02:04.801)
thank you, thank you. Now I feel so good.

Olajumoke Fatoki (02:12.965)
very well. It's good to reconnect with you. It's been like two years, right? I'm really

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (02:18.827)
Yes, it is and our time flies really. It's really been...

Olajumoke Fatoki (02:22.564)
It really does fly. Yeah. So excited to see you, my powerhouse Esther. I can't wait for, know, what we're going to share with our audience today. But before we get into that, Esther, I have a burning question in my mind that I plan to ask.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (02:38.112)
Okay.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (03:55.507)
So what happened?

Olajumoke Fatoki (04:02.594)
The devil is a liar.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (04:03.783)
Thank you, Moke. He's a liar, he's failed. He has failed.

Olajumoke Fatoki (04:08.394)
We because we're going to run this and we'll run it well. Yeah. Yeah. And the before whatever happened, happened. I'm sure it has saved. That's how the platform works. Right. So loading. Yes, exactly. So that's already saved. So I'm just going to join this path together with it. So we're still good. Right. So I said, I have an interesting question that has been burning on my mind that I've

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (04:12.933)
Yes, we'll get it done. Absolutely. Absolutely.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (04:21.901)
Yes, yes, I saw it's, you know, like as I was also.

Olajumoke Fatoki (04:38.19)
plan to ask you. It's been raining our words for you and I mean this is 2025 and we are just in January. How are you pulling that off Esther? We need to know the secrets. Please spill the tea.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (04:44.595)
Thanks

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (04:54.483)
So I do everything I am into without even thinking a ward. So what is primary to me is getting it done. And if recognition comes, I mean, I take a given example, the digital transformation recognition in Africa by CIO magazine, I didn't even see the recognition. They didn't even reach out to me. It was my boss then.

Olajumoke Fatoki (05:02.798)
Hmm.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (05:21.587)
that said somebody forwarded this to me, Esther, congratulations. And I'm like, I was lost. I followed the link and right there on LinkedIn, I had to chat up the organizers to say, I didn't get a message. Did I miss your email? to, after they said what they do is that they have a team of people who just look across the industry for people who are doing great stuff. And then they also ask for recommendation. So I'm not like, okay, so you don't know who is watching most times. So I think,

Olajumoke Fatoki (05:26.51)
Wow.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (05:51.463)
what is best for everybody, not to, you shouldn't do things just because of the award. Yeah, sometimes they are good recognition that, I mean, it gives you like a pat on the back that you're doing something right. But primarily it's about impact. It's about driving the transformation that is desired for business growth. And that primarily gives me joy. That's where I get my fulfillment from. know, seeing things move from

being little to being great, from dark to light, know, that excites me. And that's for me is I don't chase them, but they come and I'm glad that at least somebody is seeing. Somebody would say, when I want to give up, I just look and then see and say to myself, look who is watching. It might just be your child. It might just be somebody who is also trying to give up.

but when they see how much you give it the push and the drive and you can then be an inspiration. So that is my own driving force.

Olajumoke Fatoki (06:55.542)
That's so inspirational. That is really amazing. They are doing, you know, such great work and you get recognized for it. And you know, the beauty of it for me is you didn't even know about it. Somebody else had to call your attention to it. So it means that that wasn't your focus. Your focus was getting the job done. And you also alluded to that and that's really inspiring. And I hope a lot of people can take this, you know, away from here. The recognition is fantastic. And as a matter of fact, it always comes, but

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (07:08.883)
you

Olajumoke Fatoki (07:23.756)
The first part is to put in the work, get the work done and you can be sure that the recognition, whatever it is, is always going to come. So thank you, Esther, for consistently walking the talk, leading the way and showing us what is possible. Thank you so much.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (07:23.89)
Yeah.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (07:27.791)
Yes. Yes.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (07:46.483)
Thank you again for having me.

Olajumoke Fatoki (07:47.734)
You're welcome. All right. So we're getting into, you know, it's getting, we're getting there little by little. So we have a fun icebreaker question that we like to ask our guests. It's becoming a tradition on this show, right? And of course, Esther, you're not going to be exempted. So are you ready so I can shoot? All right. Fantastic. So if your career journey were to be a movie, what would the title be and why?

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (08:03.933)
That's nice. Okay.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (08:20.371)
Okay, I'm given to watching, let's say crime movies, investigative journalism, law, and maybe not so much of science fiction, but what comes to mind is this being an alchemist. An alchemist is someone

Olajumoke Fatoki (08:21.784)
Hahaha

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (08:49.533)
with tons like basic metals into gold. And for me, since my journey, it's right from the start, even while I was at Nestle, it's about transformation, making like just like what I said earlier, growing things, transforming things, bringing them from a place of nothing to be, not being recognized, to being recognized.

place of no impacts to big impact. And that's what I do every day for brands. And that's what I do for organizations, turning their challenges to opportunity, blending innovation with consumer insight and helping to shape the future of the business of marketing of their brands. So I call myself the digital alchemist. And if there's going to be a sign of word, I'll say the digital alchemist, transforming brands.

inspiring change.

Olajumoke Fatoki (09:48.972)
Woo!

Olajumoke Fatoki (09:55.222)
I love it. I love it. I love it. think that's one of the best we've seen so far. Wow, Esther. The digital archimist. I love it. It's so, so good. Thank you so much for bringing your A game, you know, and for showing that creativity that you're known for. I love it. All right. Thank you. And I love the story behind it too. You know how you came about that. Fantastic. Fantastic. Thank you so much.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (10:01.363)
nice nice nice.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (10:15.865)
Thank you. Thank you, Jim.

Olajumoke Fatoki (10:25.258)
all right so having laid that foundation we are getting deeper so we're getting right into the core of our conversation today and you know that leads me to our first conversation for today so esther what do you think the top skills for that proof what are the top skills that professionals need to stay competitive in a digitally transformed world who better to speak on the subject

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (10:31.571)
Mm-hmm.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (10:54.707)
I have not always been in this field. So I would like to start with that. So I started off in marketing, field sales. And so now that I'm here.

Olajumoke Fatoki (11:00.278)
Amazing, amazing.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (11:13.037)
Do we have anyone who is, you know, looking to have this kind of pivoting or let's call it career transformation or thriving in this digital world, regardless of what profession you are, whether you want to completely move to digital or even in your profession, be it human resources, be it a sales manager, be supply chain professional.

or even manufacturing professional, what do you need? It's a mix of technical skill. It's a mix of strategic thinking. There are soft skills too that are required to make the mark. then in whatever field you find yourself, you'll have all that you need in terms of digital competency to thrive and make significant contribution because that also is important.

It's not about just having them. It's not about having those skills. It's about also making impact with them, transforming your profession. One thing that I've found that worked for me, I guess it's just the way I'm also wired, is I have this apathy for status quo. When you hear people say, this is how we've always done it, I mean, that's...

That's like a trigger for me, a trigger to the negative. We should always be thinking. Yes, I agree. I mean, I know there's a saying that says if it is working or there's no need to fix it, right? If it's already working, don't fix it. But what we have seen in our world today, given the evolution of the workspace, evolution of our consumers and customers, because that is why business exists primarily.

their needs, their behavior is rapidly transforming. So we need to match up and catch up. And that is why every professional need to have the required skill to survive, to succeed, and to also bring a quality big business or make their business succeed in that regard. And here are the skills. First, you should be interested in digital literacy. And know for your profession.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (13:34.897)
What are the next big thing, the now thing, and also the next big thing? We know, I'm sure every profession now, AI has found an integration in almost all profession. So you shouldn't be left out. You should be curious to say, how is artificial intelligence? How does it impact my industry? What do I need to know? How can I, you know, there's a...

I think the saying is everywhere now, but I would still say it, which is AI will not take jobs, but it would take the jobs of people who do not understand artificial intelligence. What about data analytics? As simple as it might seem, well, maybe to some of us, but I know data, when people hear data, they want to run away. But life is easier these days. There are now platforms.

that could help you turn your data into insights. And then you can spend more time in strategy for your business. Power BI, understanding the use of Power BI. Automation, a lot of things are automated. If you're still spending time, know, cranking your head, doing things that machines can do for you, you're not making good use of business time. And that's why digital literacy, digital fluency.

You can't miss this one. It is important and it is relevant in all profession. What about strategic thinking? You know, I said it's a blend of technical, strategic and of course soft skill, strategic thinking and problem solving. I get excited. You know, there's this team member I have, she left the business not so long ago. She used to say, Esther, there is a problem. You know, whatever, as much as I want to correct her and say, don't always say there's a problem.

But sometimes there's a way I feel excited because I know this is not another opportunity for me to come to bring it. just get, just say, OK, tell me. mean, I have never flinched every time she says there's a problem. I'm excited. just somehow I don't know. I don't have to call it excitement, but somehow I have this weld up energy to say, let's hear it, because I'm always looking at solving problems.

Olajumoke Fatoki (15:28.462)
you

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (15:52.231)
being able to navigate change and also what is changing within the industry, digital innovation. How can we turn around or navigate situation while we're still looking at the business goal? Adaptability and also continuous learning. When I pivoted into this field, into tech, I've always been fully commercial, know, pressing.

And how did I get the job? was because I have always shown some what people would call digital enthusiasm. I've always been like the way say, I'm digital enthusiast. I've always been that. I'm always looking at how to use technology. And I didn't know the world would even end up this way. But I'm always looking for how to gain speed, how to get things done faster, how to get better, how to also get more business for my

Olajumoke Fatoki (16:41.454)
Hmm.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (16:50.299)
for my organization, also achieve the objective faster and even better. and like the function I was in before, was one of the people who pioneered the use of the handheld, the digital platform for that's what the field staff at that time to that the CRM platform to record their call conversation with customers to track the business moving from manual reporting to

automated type. this, I'm sure these and some other things counted for me. I was appointed, there was no interview like, we need someone to fill this role. And looking through the entire organization, you're the best fit. I know I took it as a challenge. And that's, still trying to explain the continuous learning pattern, being adaptable and being given to continuous learning. Okay. What did I do in that first month? I quickly started

Olajumoke Fatoki (17:37.176)
Mm-hmm.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (17:46.931)
If you are going to be an axe to cut a tree, you have to be sharp. So what I did is to quickly scout and see what do I need to know? What do I need to know to succeed in this role? I was clear because I've asked my stakeholder, what do you want to achieve in the first year? What are you looking at in the next three years? I was clear. how do I then go? So I knew I needed to sharpen the axe. And so I took up courses.

I wasn't afraid to, know, they were not fields that I am familiar with, but with an open mind, I was able to, you know, get it and to get mentors, okay? Because it's important, you need mentors, you need people who could coach, who should coach you, people you could run to and seek advice or coaching if you hit a dead end, seeming dead end because there is no dead end. So.

Olajumoke Fatoki (18:40.481)
Right.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (18:41.677)
So that is important. Then the last but not the least is leadership and change management.

After all said and done, it is important that whatever skill you learn, your role bring value to the business. So, and that is where you separate the boys from the men. Okay. And whatever you do, are you able to link it back to business value? Are you able to deliver significant benefits to the business through every, and that's where leadership comes in. How you think.

Olajumoke Fatoki (19:01.486)
Hmm.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (19:19.261)
There's an overall business objective and you're not running in silo. Every of your seconds or your minutes of your action, every of the spend have to bring greater return for the business. that's leadership. Leadership skill is a must learn. And how do you learn that? It starts for us by sharpening your business acumen, what's your understanding of the business and what the business needs. You need to look.

Your leaders are not interested in all the day-to-day running tactical stuff. They want you to talk business. Everything you are doing, how does it bring impact to us? What does it mean for the business? And that's it. And that leadership would help you manage the change, digital change, especially. It's a journey I could go on and on, really. We know what the different stages of change management is, when people would would resist.

Change is not always easy. You understanding. How did you share the vision? Is it inspiring enough to get people to want to go the long haul with you? They're not complex. You would see also that there are things that may be overlooked, but there things that really count as tough skills for professionals who want to stay competitive in a digitally transformed world.

Olajumoke Fatoki (20:40.654)
amazing, amazing, amazing Esther. That was an entire master class. And we are just getting started.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (20:49.081)
And you have to, you have to give me a cue. talk, I do that for a living sometimes.

Olajumoke Fatoki (20:54.978)
That was an entire masterclass, Esa, and you know, you've given us, and we're just getting started, and you know, I love the energy. A lot of things you said, you know, stood out, and I'm sure that our listeners, they have actionable strategies, things that they can begin to implement already from everything you said. But for me, the things that stood out, what I hear, you said a lot of things, but the first thing that stood out for me is agility, your response time, you know, your, your,

prepared for whatever is thrown at you. You have that agility, you know, as part of your process, as part of your makeup. And I'm sure you didn't just get there in one day, something you built over time, you know, ability to respond in the face of challenges. You said something profound, you know, your teammates comes and says, Esther, there's a problem. And you're like, bring it on. This is another opportunity, you know, to shine. That's the disposition we all need to have.

instead of retreating, you know, in the face of challenges, but you know, going head on, it's not easy because I'm sure some poor out there looking at me and saying, okay, why are making it? Why are making it sound like it's exactly? It's never easy. But who says, I mean, exactly. Nothing good comes to comes with easy as a matter of fact, you know, whatever people get to celebrate today, you only need to, you know, reach out to those people and hear the story behind it.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (22:02.355)
It's a set. Necessary than done. The mindset.

Olajumoke Fatoki (22:20.302)
Like I always like to say, there is the backside of the desert when nobody saw you putting in all the work. So fantastic, Esther. I heard, I curiosity as well. You you said something, you've always been that digital enthusiast, even when you didn't know where the world was going to. And I mean, it's no wonder that you're doing what you're doing now. You know, if you've had all of these nudges as far back as then, and you started to make quality decisions based on that. And I really hope that a lot of people, you know, can learn from this.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (22:26.163)
Absolutely. Yeah.

Olajumoke Fatoki (22:50.262)
You know, and one thing I also want to make clear is it doesn't matter where you are, you know, in your journey, don't feel like where do I start from? You know, and that's going to lead me to my next question. There's no need to feel overwhelmed. You can, you know, you can start now. What is important is for you to really start exactly baby steps, you know, and then move on from the fantastic Esther. So, you know, so many things you've said and me buttressing it as well, but

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (22:59.047)
Mm-hmm.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (23:05.393)
No. Maybe steps.

Olajumoke Fatoki (23:19.638)
Sometimes I feel like some people get overwhelmed, right? You know, with this constant change, with the constant evolution, you think you have it today and then you wake up tomorrow, there's something new and you just have to, you know, stay on top of these trends. How do people, you know, what advice do you have for people who feel overwhelmed with the constant evolution, you know, the constant change in this digital world?

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (23:37.981)
Mm.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (23:47.159)
Okay, good question really. We all have situations that overwhelm us, whether it's personal or even professional. And one mindset that would help overcome that feeling of overwhelmingly is having a positive one. that just like Jo-Maked earlier said, I mean,

more like and of course, which I mean she reiterated I said it and then she reiterated it's Having an open mind a positive mindset that whatever comes I can handle so that needs to happen first So because it's a lot of these things us is about our psychology how we are built so first Just to succeed and get over the overwhelmingness. It is important to have a positive mindset that you know what?

I can do it. And whatever is now overwhelming you, now to the second step, you should say to yourself, who around me or within my industry is likely to have an answer. So you want to also bounce off. And that's why networking is great. Within your industry, need to know who to talk to, who, I mean, have good visibility of who around you, you can bounce off ideas with.

bounce of even problems with. And this is where you need coaches, you need mentors. And when I say coaches, I mean, people who would not give you the answer immediately, who would let you by yourself walk through and get to the answer. Sometimes, you know, in my spare time, I do this, and I don't have much of a spare time, I have to already confess. But sometimes I find that that answers to people's concern, whatever is overwhelming them.

be it at, yeah, of course at work and of course we within our landscape, the constant evolution of the times, times I think after COVID the world changed. That's it was like we came into a new world entirely for folks that are in Africa. was, I'm not sure what it was like for people who perhaps were born in, you know, the other continents of the world, but for

Olajumoke Fatoki (25:51.864)
Yeah.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (26:08.455)
folks in Africa, some people at that moment, when we transformed them into a new world after COVID, some people lost it mentally. They couldn't just up the pace. like Juman Kevich said, don't think this is really a big hurdle. Most of us didn't get here in one day. Many people you see, especially in our climate.

Olajumoke Fatoki (26:15.342)
Hmm.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (26:36.719)
And if you look at maybe a particular age range, people were perhaps like 30 to 40 around this age range. Most of them did not start being digital. They did not start. They met the world. mean, these are the people you call maybe some sort of early digital migrants. People were like 50 other real migrants.

There are people who are digital natives. Those are like people who are like in their 20s because they met the world with all the phones and they were born into it exactly. if you are in that age range like over 30 and you experienced COVID and it was a sieve, even your profession, you don't even want to understand it again. I've had people who came and said, I don't even know what I'm doing anymore. It's a sieve.

Olajumoke Fatoki (27:05.291)
We're born into it.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (27:30.291)
I mean, I don't have a future in this profession. And I said, and I had to go through the coaching conversation. And most times I found out that there's so much they can do in their current profession. They are just not seen. They are not couriers also. And they have other skills. Should they decide to pivot? But how do they identify it? And this is where I asked people to use this Ikegai, this Ikegai framework.

The Ikegai, you know what you love to do, your passion, and what you can be paid for, what does the world need. If you can answer those questions. At the intersection is your Ikegai. And that is where your peace of mind lies. You know what you're good at, what you're good at, what you're passionate about, what the world needs, and what skill you have that you can be paid for at the intersection of this. I mean, if...

Olajumoke Fatoki (28:11.95)
Hmm.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (28:29.747)
These people were at the point where they are overwhelmed with what the world is turning into. And they can't seem to be able to keep up pace. If they can answer this question, they would see that their answers lies in their response. So that would be my advice for them. Don't rush it. Take a deep breath. Take a deep breath. There is no problem without a solution.

Olajumoke Fatoki (28:47.967)
Amazing.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (28:56.179)
There is no challenge without a solution. The only way you have issue is when you try to do it by yourself. And we have been created into communities. We've been created. I mean, that's why you are not created as a loner in one jungle. You are created among humans. You are not like a different species. And that's why God creates humans. I mean, create everything and make sure that they have a community. Even the birds of the hair, they have community.

Goats have communities. So there would always be an answer to bring a solution to the times or to whatever feeling that you're going through. So that would be my advice. Most of us, like I said earlier, we didn't start with digital, I mean, or whatever scale. We pivoted and it starts first with taking ownership, maybe of projects, of being truly interested, being willing to add value.

And that's what I see missing in health for early and mid professionals these days. People just want to do what they just want to do as much as they are being paid for. Most people don't want to go the extra mile. Come on, that doesn't work anywhere. Most of those projects or those volunteering things that you do, you find that the value is even more to you because most times you learn new skills, you have more experience.

And this is where you see people just want to just run and say, you know what, I can only do what I'm being paid for. see this attitude and why won't people be overwhelmed? If you know that whatever skills you have gathered in, in being either project member or even championing a course or volunteering, you know, it is yours. Then you can know that the world is your oyster and this is for you to conquer. that's, give me a cue when I'm going out.

Olajumoke Fatoki (30:48.654)
Amazing!

Amazing, amazing stuff, Esther. No worries. I love everything you're sharing, so it's good. I love it. I love it. Amazing, amazing, amazing stuff, Esther. You know, guys, one thing keeps reverberating for me, right? Across all the conversations that I've had in recent time, and that's the power of networking. Like, it cannot be overemphasized. And Esther just, you know, touched on it too.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (30:53.715)
You need to give me a cue. You need to give me a cue, okay?

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (31:03.443)
Thank you.

Olajumoke Fatoki (31:22.498)
Don't do life on your own. There is no problem that is without a solution. There's no better way to capture it, Esther. There is no challenge that is without a solution. There's nothing practically new under the sun. Someone has done it. You only need to find out, you know, and be visible to that, yeah, and how they did it, you know, and be visible to that network, okay? Don't do life alone. It cannot be overemphasized. Be visible to your tribe.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (31:36.689)
Nothing. And how they did it.

Olajumoke Fatoki (31:51.808)
you know, and let them be able to help you. You need to ask anyway, people are not just going to assume that you know, you need this help, you know, so that's the path that you need to work on. You know, believe in yourself enough to be able to ask for help. heard that yesterday and I think it was really profound. Because if you don't believe in yourself enough, you cannot go to people to approach them for help. But you need to believe in yourself enough.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (31:59.965)
Mm-hmm.

Olajumoke Fatoki (32:17.228)
what you carry, your capacity, what you want to do, enough to request for help. Exactly. And because you know what you're doing, they would also see it because you're the first believer of yourself. If you don't believe in yourself, nobody else will. All right? So if you're approaching people, have to approach them with the belief that you carry something special and that is an attraction on its own. They're definitely going to feel attracted.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (32:23.033)
You're not afraid to ask for help?

Olajumoke Fatoki (32:45.216)
and be interested in helping you on that journey. So guys, build your network. It cannot be overemphasized. And there is no problem without a solution. Thank you so much, Esther, for that unique perspective. Thank you. I'm excited about the way this conversation is going. So much, so much value, so much germs that our listeners can benefit from. And I am excited. All right, so let's move to the next question.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (33:00.145)
Yeah.

Hahaha.

Olajumoke Fatoki (33:14.51)
And we're diving into leadership. I know that you already spoke briefly about it, but to just contextualize things a little bit more. So how can mid-level career professionals pivot into leadership roles within digital first industries?

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (33:20.519)
you

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (33:36.147)
Okay, it's a really good question. Now we've seen a lot of people who between 2020, I like making reference to because it's actually a unique and defining year in the history of mankind and also in the history of career professionals, whether we like it or not. We see a lot of people move into the space.

digital first industry. when we say digital first industry, we're talking about the tech native industries. And we're not saying like FMCG, where digital is an enabler, is an enabler to achieving the objective. But here in industries where digital is the core and digital is what they sell. It's how they do business.

and how they also deliver value. It's like embedded end to end, it's all digital. So for people who are mid-career professional, which I, like I said, notice that a lot of people moved into the industry around that period. After that period, people started learning this data analytics, start learning social media management, digital marketing, start learning the coding and programmatic.

all of those around that period. But now they're now faced with challenge of where do I also go from here? The money is good a lot of times, but sometimes you lose just fulfillment at some point. It may not bring satisfaction again. It's when you're just perhaps just doing the same thing. You want to be given bigger opportunities. You want to lead teams and all of that. I mentioned earlier, like you rightly said, it's important

first to build a very strong digital and business acumen. You need that blend. You need to understand how digital will drive business results. And this is what your stakeholder, that is what matters to your stakeholder. You can speak all the English you want to speak in the entire world. You can speak all the technical terms and terminologies. The truth is,

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (35:58.853)
If you cannot explain how you bring value to business, how everything you do would drive growth, will help the business win in the market, how it will expand their margins, their profit margins, how it would also help them generate cash. Then you are just became gibberish. And so this is what it's important if you need to get into leadership role. So build your business acumen, your understanding of business.

build it. Then, number two, it's important to then develop a leadership mindset. You need to raise your hand up. You cannot just want to get by with doing just a little. There is a job to be done. they say, so we'll take this. mean, actions for meetings, next steps to follow up on. And they shouldn't, if you are there and you're truly serious about

growing. And like I said, also before, you're not doing it for the organization or for your boss. Most times the benefits comes to you because you learn new skills, you get better, even if you do the skill that you already have, you hone it by volunteering, showcasing your skills, true innovation, true strategic thinking, show how things can be done.

differently. And one thing which Jumaka also re-emphasized earlier is you need to have an expanded professional network. The networks are there and the world is so beautiful these days. There's so many of them. Find the right one. Check out if they have the community has what you are looking for. Okay. Engage with mentors, thought leaders.

and digital communities. Opportunities might come from there. Okay. And also where you see people also interact, hold conversation, there are things that you also pick that you probably haven't heard before. And you can just apply in your own stuff, in your own work purview. Then you also need to be able to demonstrate your transformational wins.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (38:25.661)
how even the small initiatives in your current role, how it shows or showcases your leadership potential, you should be able to connect that dots. I would not stop saying this. So I think this at like points that are really, really important for mid-career professionals that are looking to pivot into leadership within their digital first industry.

And the point is, like one of my bosses said, she is a Nigerian. And of course, there's a popular quote also. I'm going to just cold mix them. Is what got you here will not get you there. Your technical skill may have gotten you where you are. But to ascend into leadership position, that's a difference. And in most cases, even your technical skill may not be needed.

So what do want to do? may not be needed because it's not about the day to day running and all of those stuff. You should now be able to have a higher level of thinking beyond that frost, the first line, whether it's first line management or even below that. You need to be able to start thinking at a higher level. Yeah, so that's, I think, summarizes.

My answer to that. What got you here, will not take you there.

Olajumoke Fatoki (39:52.342)
Beautiful. Beautiful, beautiful, beautiful. I love it. You know, business acumen, that stood out for me the most. You have to, you know, that's like a game changer because what got you here, like you said, is not going to take you there. Your technical skills, you know, might have served you thus far, you know, but you need to hop the game. You know, you need to be intentional, you know, build leadership skills.

And you know, one strategic thing that Esther says, the only language that businesses understand is numbers. You have to be able to speak, you know, the language of the business, understand the business and, you know, speak numbers and that would, you know, just help you fly, you know, so pay attention, you know, to studying your business and to understanding it. I'm not going to flog that, but I have a follow-up question, Esther, and do you think that personal branding plays any role?

you know, in leadership development.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (41:01.585)
Yeah, I can hear you. So did you ask a question already? I lost the audio for a bit.

Olajumoke Fatoki (41:02.646)
It's freezing from my end?

Olajumoke Fatoki (41:07.254)
Okay, so I said I had a follow-up question. Yeah, yes, I can hear you now. It froze for a while, but you're back. Can you hear me?

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (41:09.327)
I'm okay.

Olajumoke Fatoki (41:21.774)
Can you hear me?

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (41:24.029)
How are we doing? Yes, I can now. Are we good?

Olajumoke Fatoki (41:26.136)
I can hear you now. Okay. Yes, I can hear you now too. Yes. So can you hear me? All right. Did you hear my follow-up question or should I repeat it? Fantastic. All right. Shoot.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (41:31.387)
Okay, yes.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (41:35.803)
Yes, clearly. Now then, Claire.

No, I did not. I think we lost the audio for a bit. But please, just pardon me. Let me adjust my... I know you'll cut it.

Olajumoke Fatoki (41:43.474)
you did not? Okay. Okay. All right. Yeah. So I said that I have a follow up question to that. And that's, do you think that personal branding

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (41:50.963)
I didn't notice. Okay, are we good now? Okay, please, I would like that you take the question again.

Olajumoke Fatoki (41:56.32)
Okay. Yes. Then again. All right. So can you hear me now?

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (42:02.63)
Okay.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (42:08.634)
shh, the audio gone again. Do I think that personnel Brandon and it went off.

Olajumoke Fatoki (42:09.526)
It's frozen. It's frozen again.

Yeah, I'll take the question again. I just need to know that you can hear me now.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (42:17.703)
Hello?

Olajumoke Fatoki (42:20.504)
Can you hear me now? Okay. Yeah. So the question is, do you think that personal branding plays any role, you know, in leadership developments?

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (42:22.993)
Yes, I can, clearly.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (42:35.187)
Good question. And yes, it does. And yes, it does. And thanks for bringing that to the fore Somehow I mentioned it, but maybe did not use that parlance when I say you need to get your raise your hand up for task for assignments.

before you know it, they know that to get things done, call on Esther. I had one of my bosses at my landmark birthday last two years. He said, when he was to speak and honestly that day, because I have my peers also that day, he said, you, they wonder sometimes, why do I just always nominate Esther for assignments, for stuff? He said, it's because

when I give her, don't need to follow up. She gets it done. I just bother about the timeline and right there, she's there either before or the timeline with the outcome. I don't need to tell her or she would get it done. And I think, and that's a brand already, if you ask me. I was watching the video not so long ago and I said, yeah, being known for something.

Someone also said something recently, you know, there was like a team bonding done some time ago. And well, most times know that we do. I think it was at a commercial conference and.

Well, it's post that commercial conference. The person said, when they assigned me to your team, I said, we are definitely going to win because every team Esther is in wins. I don't play. When I say I don't play, I mean, I don't know jokes. You say, do something. I give it my all. I don't say, we're just playing. It's just team bonding anyway. Esther don't take it. No.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (44:49.595)
I take it serious. We will win. And it's not, it's just, it's just in me that, okay, my name is, is mentioned with it. If I am here, we give it our all. won't do half measure. And that is it. And I'm not most I'm doing it for myself. I'm also looking at inspiring people to take things seriously. Don't give everything you have to do.

give it your all. Don't excellence, let it be your trademark. If they know you are there, them that's your bosses, most bosses I have been I've been managing teams for over 15 years now. And I know people who would give a day you know, leadership sometimes can look like parenting. Even though we're saying don't treat them like parents or child, right? But

Sometimes it can look like parenting. Sometimes you know the children that will give you peace of mind, the ones that will be troublesome, the ones that need a little push, the ones that needs to be inspired, the ones that understanding your team. And I know that the people that resonates more, that I find it, that I see at a higher level of maturity, to put it, are people who get things done.

Even not that they won't have challenges, but they know how to navigate, how to get help, how to speak up and get help on time. Not that when they hit a roadblock, they stay black. They won't communicate. It is until you ask. And they will not say, I couldn't go further because of this. You know, and I'm wondering, why did I, why do I have to ask before I know you have hit a roadblock? And this is it. So what are you known for?

That's the question asked, what am I known for? What is Jamoke known for? What is Esther known for? What would people say about that's a personal brand and personal branding also comes with how you also give out value. Are you just taking or giving back? Who are you growing? Who are you mentoring? Who are you contributing to their professional growth?

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (47:16.691)
It could also be personal support. That is a brand. Long ago, that was somewhere in 2018 there about, I mean, because I've always been getting people nudging me, calm, please be my mentor, be my coach. And I'm wondering how do I go about this? And without even thinking in that direction. And I was actually thinking for myself.

Like when I started the book club, I was thinking, I'd love to read books, but I've not read in a long time. Esther, what do you do? I saw that as a problem. And I said, you know what? Let me get people who would be like a support group. Let me get people who also have like minds, who life is catching up with us, with the person or professional. And we most times forget to sharpen the ax.

that is cutting the tree because like that's what I like in self-development or continuous learning to, you you are doing the hard job. You cannot do that. Like you need to cut a tree. You cannot do it with a blunt saw. You need a sharp one. And the only way to sharpen our service through learning. So and then the community started. And from the community, we live in within the community, we have sub-communities, people based on professions, based on their, and whether it's to give them

leadership advice, whether it's to also point them in the direction of somebody else also in that tribe who has the skill and expertise. And that's a brand has also already been created. So in trying to be a person of value, you find out that you are building a brand, a persona brand. Everything I've just described here, it's being a person of value. And that is how you create that persona brand.

So branding is really important in building leadership. So no doubt.

Olajumoke Fatoki (49:15.784)
Amazing stuff, Esther. I have not seen, you know, anyone tackle that question of personal brand. And I'm not saying this to, you know, to hype or anything, you know. I love the angle, you know, from which you took it before you now even landed the plane. You made it all about what you're doing, what you're known for. You started with a story like what people know you for, you know, raising your hands, you know, to take up challenges, you know.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (49:26.439)
Thank you.

Olajumoke Fatoki (49:43.032)
committed to excellence. People already know this as, if we say, if we call Esther to the room, we are sure that we would win. You have built a personal brand without even you knowing it, you know, but it's, it's a whole different thing that people, you know, tend to think about these days. They feel it's about, you know, having their pictures everywhere on social media, you know, all those other things, which is good, right? Guys, don't get me wrong. Those are really good as well.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (50:08.737)
Hahaha

Olajumoke Fatoki (50:10.454)
in today's world, you know, just to bring a balance, visibility is key, you know, but it's really more about how you bring value. And I don't want to overflog that because I did a great job at that, you know, and I hope that our listeners are able to, you know, pack all the values, all the wonderful gems, you know, that are being dropped on this episode today. All right. So without wasting, you know, more time, I'm just going to dive into our next question for today.

day but i like to check in with my guests so Esther how are you feeling do you feel like we're we're drawing virtue from you

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (50:46.707)
Well, I think I'm in my element. That's what I would say. I'm in my element. So I'm sure you can already tell. I'm in my element. Like, you know, this is the mode I like to be bringing value. And of course, like I said, we are doing this initiative. I'm thinking of whoever gets to watch this.

Olajumoke Fatoki (50:55.49)
Fantastic.

You're loving. I can tell, I can tell. And that's why I'm also enjoying this because I mean so much value, right? So yeah, that's why this is what I to add too.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (51:15.793)
what value they would get.

Olajumoke Fatoki (51:20.814)
And that's really what we are about. I can hear you. Yeah, you can hear me too.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (51:22.259)
think the audio is...

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (51:26.611)
Okay, this went a slow. What about now? Yes, we're good. think we're back.

Olajumoke Fatoki (51:29.142)
Yeah, but you can hear me now, right? Yes, I can. We are good now. Yeah. All right. So what are the most common barriers professionals face in adapting to digital change? I know we talked about it and you know, I sort of like my questions to flow like that because repetition, you know, helps things to stick better. So the more examples, the more we go about a particular thing, you know, the better it sticks.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (51:52.37)
Hmm.

Olajumoke Fatoki (51:55.874)
you know, for our listeners. So that's why I sort of structure my questions that way. So you can refer to what you have shared earlier. You can also deep dive further, you know, so the common barriers that professionals face in adapting to this digital change and, know, some of the practical ways that they can overcome them.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (52:11.987)
You

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (52:16.755)
Okay, so that question, maybe I wouldn't repeat what I've said before, maybe I wouldn't. But I think the first barrier that the face is fear, fear of the unknown. Okay, we have all been there. What's happening? What is next for me? So fear of the unknown.

I mentioned earlier, people will move into tech or the digital space after 2020. What makes them move first is fear of the unknown. Maybe in the profession they're in, they're wondering what's next for me. And they thought, OK, it's now time to pivot. Even now that you are here, there's still lots of fear of the unknown. And that links to the question you asked earlier. They now want to move up the

ladder and they are wondering is there space for me there? Is there a seat for me at the boardroom? Is there a seat for me at the top? So first fear of the unknown, the top challenge. And we also see that also people being resistant to change is a barrier for them to adapt in. Yeah, being resistant. I still see people who are like my peers. When you bring an idea and it's digital,

or that's to do with skills they don't have, they show some resistance. And I'm in my head, I'm like, this is an opportunity for you to learn it. I mean, you said something very aptly earlier, which is, it's a higher level of leadership thinking. If you don't know, and you can acknowledge you don't know, and you can seek support or help, you will only get better for it. And the truth is,

Like I tell my boys, if you miss a question now, it is upon you, like a question made in the exam, or you made an error now, the onus is on you not to make it a second time. And that goes also for professional. If you don't know it now, doesn't mean you will never know it. It's an opportunity for you to learn. So you can overcome the fear of the unknown and resistance to change.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (54:39.859)
continuous learning, having an also having an open mind and having a growth mindset. Someone with a growth mindset will say, I don't know it, but I can learn it. But somebody who has the growth, the limits, the limited or what do call the opposite of growth mindset now, most times I think growth.

Olajumoke Fatoki (55:00.216)
Fixed mindset, fixed. Yeah. Yeah.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (55:02.929)
The fixed mindset. Most times I think growth, so I don't know the opposite. You know, a fixed mindset will be like, I don't know it and I don't think I can learn it. I think I'm too old for this. Or I can't be bothered. Let people who know it do it. So that's a fixed mindset. So continuous learning will help overcome fear of the unknown. Saying to yourself, whether you're sticking in your profession, just say, if I know what's the next big thing in this profession.

and I go learn it, then I have a chance to make it to the top in this profession. And if you're pivoting, you still don't need to fear. All you need to do is to go for continuous learning. What skill do I need to do well where I'm going? Whether you're pivoting or you're also aspiring to be a leader, then the growth mindset, open-mindedness is very critical. Then number two, I'm thinking of, okay,

Skills gap, okay, so you can also get that sorted through your continuous learning. You just be honest with yourself. Should I sell be true? Okay, what skills do I not have? Put it on the table, prioritize, which one will I learn in the next quarter? Which one and take your time. Like we said earlier, are we agreed? Baby steps. Don't look at the big stuff, okay? Break it down into smaller chunks of actionable activity to do.

Olajumoke Fatoki (56:08.749)
Hmm.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (56:30.255)
And you can close this gap of skill gap through training and through mentorship. OK? We have said seek mentorship, join a community. And let me just add one more. And that would be some organizations also need to support. OK? So and I'm saying it because I know you are HR professional and some HR professionals and leaders would also hear this. organization should start

pushing forward a culture that values digital transformation. And that can happen through advocacy, having all the strategic conversation. I said, we have organizations that are digital native and those that digital is just an enabler for. for in those organizations where digital is an enabler, people tend to hide and say, we only sell chocolate or we only sell soap, you know?

do not think of how can digital enable our business results, get us faster results, help us win in the market, help us expand our margin, or how can digital also help us generate more money? How can we leverage digital to win as a business, you know, and even reach our objectives? So there's a need for organizations, okay? So some people, the barrier, they will say my organization does not support, please.

Do something also for yourself. Okay, now I've put out words on your behalf for organization, but then you too, you shouldn't use that as an excuse. It might be a barrier, right? But it's not a dead end. Okay, so pick up yourself and then chase the dreams.

Olajumoke Fatoki (58:13.934)
fantastic Esther and I want us to drill down you know a little bit more on that because you touched on you touched on a nerve you call that HR

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (58:23.443)
Okay.

Olajumoke Fatoki (58:25.492)
you know because of course when it comes to upskilling you know training and all of that people look to HR but i love the balance you brought to it right don't leave it in the hands of your organization as an individual what can you also do for yourself because whatever it's skills whatever it is that you learn you're not i mean it becomes yours yeah you're not always going to be with that organization forever and when you're leaving there's no way to you know force it out of you

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (58:43.067)
It's It's yes. It's yes. Absolutely.

Olajumoke Fatoki (58:52.066)
You live with it. if you think about it from that angle, you know, can do a lot of stuff, but that's not excusing the way, yeah, but that's not excusing the way organizations, right? That they need to provide the necessary support, you know, to help employees, you know, adapt to this transformation and all of that. Yeah. You know, and you know, without necessarily mention name, right? Esther, I know that you work for an organization that I think has been doing great, you know, in this.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (58:55.407)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's not an excuse.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (59:10.707)
to the digital change, absolutely.

Olajumoke Fatoki (59:20.91)
Do you want to share some of those things that you, you know, that they've done to really, you know, build that culture of, you know, adapting to digital change and all of that? While I'm mindful of the fact that there's still a lot of resistance, it doesn't matter how long, you know, you've been on this campaign, but the organization has made, you know, tremendous moves. Do you want to share some of those, you know, initiatives with us?

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (59:48.103)
I am always excited to share. I think my organization is one of the very few organizations who is leading in this regard. The fact that my organization had even thoughts of putting in place a digital structure prior to COVID, prior to COVID.

Olajumoke Fatoki (59:49.848)
So go right ahead.

Yeah.

Olajumoke Fatoki (01:00:01.102)
Absolutely.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (01:00:17.555)
That I always share as, know, for me, it shows proactiveness, proactiveness and strategic alignment. So when COVID now came upon us, it was more or less like, yeah, we were still at the initial stage, still trying to say, okay, what's skill, what's, apart from skills, what resources do we need as an organization to win in the world ahead of us?

And we didn't know that COVID would, you know, top upturn and reorganize our world. So that for me, it's a plus for the organization I work for having a structure in place that supports the upskilling of its people. And year in, year out, and this is like the sixth year running. What we have seen, it's what I have

been privileged to champion is developing key strategies for digital around the levers of people, process, data literacy, and of course, culture and way of working. and at each of this lever, we have, what we have done is to

We've taking baby steps. We know where we are going and we have been continuous improvement. Like you said, it's a journey. It is not a destination. Digital transformation is not a destination. not that we get to a point and you say, we have arrived. It's a continuous journey of learning. and that has been put in place that on the people level, what is being focused on is the digital literacy. And there are

different skills for every function, okay, that is required to thrive. Someone in supply chain, someone in HR, someone in manufacturing require different skill. And that is what we have put in place to ensure that every individual, every employee, regardless of your job role, for each job role too, there are specific skills required. So that's where you have a role specific skills and of course functional skills.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (01:02:37.939)
So that's, I will not go into that detail, but that's to tell you the level of intentionality that has been placed into driving the digital learning and helping people adapt to change so that they don't, so that they can overcome them and say that, you shouldn't be afraid anyway. The world is evolving, but we are here to support you.

to make sure that you catch up with the change. Digital will not take your job. It could make roles obsolete, but by then you will have learned another skill to also get into a digital enabled role. And that's how it works.

Olajumoke Fatoki (01:03:21.912)
Fantastic, know, essentially organizations, you know, creating that enabling environment, you know, and understanding, you know, the need for this as well. And kudos to the leadership, you know, of the organization, because at the end of the day, you know, everything flows from leadership. The fact that they, you, you, we, you know, when you have leadership buying, you know, it's easier, you know, to be able to drive something. speaking to organizations, you know, most of the,

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (01:03:40.185)
yes!

Yes.

Olajumoke Fatoki (01:03:51.832)
transformation that we are looking to achieve, especially when it comes to digital, has to, the tone at the top, you know, is going to play a huge, yeah, you know, it's going to play a huge role. please, this is a call to organizations, you know, to support employees in.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (01:04:00.829)
flow from the top. Yes, it flows.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (01:04:08.035)
actually, actually, did, it comes up to them managing their resources and of course the HR leadership. Because the truth is, you know, it's a people thing, especially when it comes to people to adapt and to run a business, need the people and to, to now win, you need the people to have the right skill and to be ready to help you win. So it's, it's, it's, I agree with you totally.

Olajumoke Fatoki (01:04:19.139)
Yeah.

Olajumoke Fatoki (01:04:35.382)
Yeah,

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (01:04:37.107)
leadership, leadership buying, leadership and strategic alignment with the journey, understanding the journey and also being there. Like we most times see that digital transformation, guess what, is 80 % leadership and 20 % technical skills. And that's what it is. It's 80 % leadership and 20 % technology.

And that's how you drive. And that same also applies also to our individual learning for digital. You have to take personal ownership. The other aspect will take care of itself. Thank you, Jim.

Olajumoke Fatoki (01:05:15.32)
Fantastic, fantastic, fantastic, Esther. Wonderful conversation so far, so many takeaways. All right, so I'm not going to go over the first question because we have dealt extensively with it in the last question. So I'm just going to drive straight into the final question for today before the rapid fire question and a bonus question for you, Esther. All right? So.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (01:05:41.267)
Okay.

Olajumoke Fatoki (01:05:42.646)
The fifth question is what trends in digital transformation should professionals be preparing for in the next three to five years? You know, looking ahead, looking forward.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (01:05:52.499)
Okay, I would say artificial intelligence is still evolving. Okay, so don't say, okay, if I miss learning it, okay, maybe I can get away with it. No, it is still evolving. And there's all this constant improvement. This space things change before you can blink. Okay, you blink you miss. So AI and automation.

Olajumoke Fatoki (01:06:16.014)
Hmm.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (01:06:21.135)
is a waste is with shipping, marketing, consumer service or consumer care, and also operations, whether it's manufacturing, whether it's supply chain, it is with shipping things there. So you better get on board. And there is also the rise of the metaverse and extended reality may not work in our context, depending on the context you are, I know this is a global platform. So for global leaders,

And that is something to keep your eye on, the extended reality. So we've gone beyond the virtual reality, augmented reality. We are now in extended reality. It's opening up potentially new space for brands to drive engagement, for businesses to win, be visible, stay on top of the mind of your consumers.

And let me add one more point and that is the future of work is evolving. We have people now who never have to even go to work again. Okay. So you need to have some discipline in that regard. Okay. To be able to do the future of work. Most times it's maybe remote collaboration. So you need to start learning those tools, how to navigate the future of work.

There are new models that are driven by AI and of course, there are different models of digital tools. So be prepared for the future of work for your profession. Find out how is my job evolving? Okay, you don't want to be the typewriter and computer person, okay? Yeah, you can actually be the only if you learn the skills of how to use computer. Okay, I mean, I'm sure you understand what I mean by typewriter. People would like my mom.

Olajumoke Fatoki (01:08:06.862)
Bitch

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (01:08:08.487)
She was in the typewriter age and she was actually very good at it. Like we had all this Pittsburgh textbook in my house, know, A-S-D-F and stuff. but LPJ exactly. So, so you want to start saying that I think it was one of my sons that said something. mean, I think we're just speaking and deliberating. And I found that that later on,

Olajumoke Fatoki (01:08:20.28)
Colom LKJ.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (01:08:37.959)
You may not even need a hardware laptop, hardware laptop or anything. You may just have to in the air, know, click on your home, go in the air. Just if you have a device on you, you can access your laptop at home, your drive at home. Just like this. You need a document, pam pam. Okay, I've sent it to you.

And like that. and that's what I mean. I mean, you don't have to press your phone. You don't have to press any adware like and that's why I talked about the extended reality. So that's so steps for staying ahead. Like what I would say is just be open. Make sure that you are in touch with your reality as it's peculiar to your profession. OK, be curious. Stay curious and not just stay curious and no take action.

where necessary and do not be afraid. There is always an answer, there's always a solution, there's somebody who has been there, who has done it and who has gotten results. So that's it.

Olajumoke Fatoki (01:09:44.408)
Fantastic. You know, you said blink and you miss something. Exactly, blink you miss. I had to write that down because that's like the speed, the way things are changing is like the speed of light such that, you know, if you just blink for a second, you know, a lot of things has happened. So for me in a nutshell, be adaptable, you know, be adaptable. Don't be set in your ways.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (01:09:52.153)
You miss.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (01:10:01.395)
Absolutely.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (01:10:07.569)
Mm-hmm.

Olajumoke Fatoki (01:10:13.25)
You know, I like to say it a lot. Don't be set in your ways. Don't, don't be stuck in the typewriter days. The world is evolving and you should, you should evolve as well. Okay. If you want to stay relevant, I mean, there are no two ways about it. Thank you so much, Esther, for leading us in such a fantastic conversation. have learned, I have learned a lot myself today and you know, and I'm excited that our listeners, you know, would have key takeaways.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (01:10:14.841)
Absolutely.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (01:10:32.019)
I'm happy I could be of help.

Olajumoke Fatoki (01:10:42.168)
great things that they can take away from this session and begin to apply in their personal lives and see immediate results. So thank you so much. But before we move on, we have some rapid fire questions that we are prepared for. So no over thinking, just say the first thing that comes to your mind and we'll take it like that. So this one.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (01:10:58.909)
Bring it on.

Okay.

Olajumoke Fatoki (01:11:10.028)
It's almost like a giveaway, but I'm still going to ask you, digital or analog? Are you a fan of handwritten notes or digital tools?

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (01:11:18.835)
Both. Let me shock you. Both. love digital tools for driving efficiency, but guess what? I still love my handwritten notes. It helps me drive or capture my creative ideas. feel even though I'm fast with the

Olajumoke Fatoki (01:11:23.628)
Wow, you play the fast one there.

Olajumoke Fatoki (01:11:37.934)
Trust in.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (01:11:48.763)
the laptop fast also with using the keyboard on my phone, but I still find I think there's a connection within rewriting and then my brain. So I don't want to lose that blessing.

Olajumoke Fatoki (01:11:59.778)
I love it and I think I agree with you, but you pulled the fast one. You're supposed to pick one. It's okay. We forgive you. All right. So what's one skill every professional should master in the digital age?

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (01:12:14.715)
Hmm, data storytelling, data storytelling. And you can never stop learning in that regard. You see data, what story are you able to tell with it? And that is critical. Long gone are the days. Sorry, I'm having to explain so that people can really understand and they can make use of it. I them to make use of it. So when I say data story, you have data these days. And good thing, like I said earlier on, is there are tools to help you.

Olajumoke Fatoki (01:12:29.294)
It's fine, yeah, yeah.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (01:12:42.929)
turn those data into nice visual, but are you able to tell a story with it? Not just tell a story, a story that would bring value to your organization that can, and a chat direction that can pinpoint if there's an issue or there's an opportunity to leverage. I think it's a skill that everyone is to learn. can never stop learning it. Okay. And that's one of the ways you can bring value to your business. Are you able to interpret data? Are you able to, you know, help?

make money using data and it's there right there.

Olajumoke Fatoki (01:13:16.654)
Amazing stuff. It's no wonder you're the digital alchemist. All right. Our final question on the rapid fire category. So Esther, if you weren't in your current field, I know this one would be tough. What career would you have pursued?

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (01:13:22.515)
Thank you.

Olajumoke Fatoki (01:13:40.162)
There goes the silence.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (01:13:43.089)
politics.

Olajumoke Fatoki (01:13:44.619)
wow!

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (01:13:47.827)
Politics is resulting. transformation, I think it would help me put to use all my skills. I think it's a natural there. And what I've just done with all the field I've walked in is to bring my innate ability, the willingness to always want to make a change, drive impact to be a so politics because yeah.

Olajumoke Fatoki (01:13:50.231)
Wow!

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (01:14:16.741)
It's about human behavior, guiding transformation. It is something that fascinates me. And driving change for people, organization, and societies, that's something I am, maybe, maybe, okay? So look out. Thank you, Jumoke

Olajumoke Fatoki (01:14:31.266)
Fingers crossed. Fingers crossed you have me rooting for you all the way because I mean, I agree with you. I agree with you. You got this. Okay. Thank you so much, Esther, you know, for being so vulnerable, for being so inspirational, you know, sharing without holding back. You know, that means a lot for us on this show. So one bonus question, Esther, to be honest, I didn't, you know, plan this question.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (01:14:46.675)
I am grateful.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (01:14:57.651)
Okay.

Olajumoke Fatoki (01:15:00.396)
but you know, you were speaking and I'm sure that something in you is already telling you the direction that I'm going with this question. Esther, how are you killing it? What is your secret sauce? We look at your own front, you you're doing amazing. I see it, even though I'm not really very close to you, but I see it. You know, we look at your career, you are killing it. You you still have time to mentor people, to help people build their career.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (01:15:09.619)
Thank

Olajumoke Fatoki (01:15:28.844)
how exactly are you able to combine all of those things and make a success out of it? Because let me give you a context to this, what I have heard. If you see a woman killing it in her career, that means her home front is suffering. If you see a woman, if it's her home front that she's killing it in, then she has no career to show for it. But you've been able to show us that these things are possible.

So we need to know that secret ingredient and I'm sure that my audience would understand why I had to bring up this question. So Esther, take it away, please.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (01:16:02.483)
Thank you, Jimoke for that question. And the first thing that comes to mind, I tell you, I am a believer in God and I am not ashamed to say it. So I have like a divine ability that has been conferred on me by God. And in a way, the scripture says I can do all things. So I don't see myself being limited.

Olajumoke Fatoki (01:16:05.582)
You

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (01:16:32.633)
at all. think that mindset and that divine ability, number one, from so I'm very, you know, I don't even waste time to give it back to God. Number two, I have a solid support system that is led by my husband. Okay. I have a Superman for a husband is so much interested in my growth.

I'm sure maybe you would hear when we were setting up, we're both working from home today. It was helping me set up, you know, I said the lights, okay, I'll check. And because the boys were there, they were in school at that time, they were not back yet. And that's how we run things. It takes me to speaking engagements. When I have speaking engagement, we look at this calendar. It's like we have our calendars been meshed. You can what I mean.

So it has, it will say I'll be available. We would go together and is there providing support even at up till there are some courses that I take that my pay cannot support. So, and it's there to see how we can pool resources, you know, to make sure that I be the best that I want to be. And I think that even on the, home front, there are things that many men may not.

I mean, we don't think like typical African. So you see is there, you know, we're working in the kitchen with G-STEM and there's no it's a woman's or any, you know, the beautiful thing for me is because it's into consulting and his job is very flexible and stuff. So into financial advisory and stuff. And so we're able to blend. I think having that structure and as a woman to like I would say.

Be sure that you don't take those also for granted, okay? It's not, and if your man is not doing it now, you shouldn't say, go and see Esther's husband. It's a journey. We didn't get here now. It was a journey. Understanding individual's vision, how, and then we see how we can navigate through life together whilst staying in love and then in God. So.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (01:18:55.155)
that's for me. And one last point that I will always say to every woman, get help. Nobody gets an award for superwoman. There are some things you can outsource. I know people would live in certain parts of the world. It may be very expensive. Maybe that's some advantage that we in this other part of the world also have. But I tell you, if you have opportunities,

to, but then there are also advantages in those other parts of the world. There are things that takes up our time, like traffic that you don't have there. So maximize your time, get help, then maximize your time. And that's how I've been able to, you know, get a lot of things done within the same 24 hours that we all have. Okay. So that's, that's, those are the three key things. Okay.

Olajumoke Fatoki (01:19:48.39)
Amazing, amazing, amazing. And there you have it listeners. Don't say Jumoke didn't do something for you. I mean, what better way to bring this conversation to a close. Thank you, Esther, for sharing that much with us. The God factor, having a solid support system, understanding each other's vision, getting help. No one wins our word for being a superwoman.

Wonderful people. I hope you hear it. Okay. Thank you so much, Esther. This has been an insightful conversation. You've shared valuable insights on thriving in a digitally transformed world, how people can break into leadership and, you know, stay ahead of industrial trends. But before we finally, finally wrap it up on this edition, where can our listeners connect with you, you know, and how can they learn more about your work?

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (01:20:22.963)
you

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (01:20:46.109)
Okay, I didn't mention that I'm an author of three books. So, and you can get those books on Seller. I can share the link with Jim, okay. And yeah, so you can access those books on Seller and I'm on LinkedIn also. And I have, I'm on Meta too, but I just do personal stuff there. But then we can connect. I'm mostly doing, you know, I'm a faith-based person, so.

Olajumoke Fatoki (01:20:50.798)
Whoa.

Olajumoke Fatoki (01:20:55.491)
Yeah.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (01:21:15.761)
And I enjoy doing it, inspiring people to, you know, get their priorities right, putting God first. So, and yeah, there's a community of book lovers, but we only want book lovers. We don't want to carry extra baggage of people who not ready to, if you're really interested or you want to love books, so we'll make you love books. There's a way we always break our book of the month into.

10 pages per day, so at least we can cover grants. those are like the areas and opportunities. And I'm also into volunteering for vulnerable women and children and the advice on the board of motherwood.eng and all of that. So it's all mesh, but I'm sure if you go on my LinkedIn profile, you can just see some of the places where I bring in value and impact my society. Thank you.

Olajumoke Fatoki (01:22:09.172)
Amazing stuff, Esther. Thank you.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (01:22:11.037)
Thanks, Jovoke, for the opportunity. Thanks for the opportunity. I have to just add this. I think this is about the most interesting podcast I've been on. Maybe because some of your questions just hit home. It helped me to pour from the wellspring. So thanks for curating.

those questions systematically and intelligently. So well done and for all that you do. And I hope if we will watch this also quickly take note, there are nuggets and not just my podcast and the other ones which I would spend time to complete watching them. So please catch up with them, Oladjimoke Fatuki. And this is an opportunity because I always say something.

Why did, you know, I think maybe I did not say fully earlier, why do I maybe start like building community and mentoring people? When I started my career, far back 2006, 2006, that's going on 20 years, you know, I said, we did not have platform like we have these days, no coaching, no mentoring platform. So we were learning by trial and error. We did not even understand.

Maybe some of our leaders then will have willingly want to do this for us. But we just didn't know. We're just navigating. And of course, are pitfalls. are distances you get out. So for me, starting a community, mentoring people, it was with the intention that if I've made that mistake, you don't have to make it. And that is why I say seek coaches. Even if it is paid, you can.

be able to say, but because the value you get is bigger and look at platform like JumaCares is for you not to fall, make same errors that people before you at make. So this will give you like extra leap into your own future. So please make use of the opportunity. Good.

Olajumoke Fatoki (01:24:18.478)
Fantastic, Esther. Thank you so much. You couldn't have said it any better and I'm not going to flog it. Thank you very much. You've captured, you know, my intention, you know, and what I had in mind when I started this. Thank you so much, Esther, for being a fantastic guest on this show. Thank you for being on the Thrive Carriers. I know how busy your schedule is and you made out time to join us. We do not take it for granted. Thank you so much. And to our listeners.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (01:24:28.115)
Thank you. Have a good night.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (01:24:41.043)
And you know how we moved and moved and happy.

Olajumoke Fatoki (01:24:46.772)
If you found today's conversation helpful, do not forget to subscribe. Be sure to leave us a review and please share this episode to someone else who needs it as well. All right. And until I come your way again next time, keep thriving in your career. Thank you. All right. All right. All right. Esther.

Ifeoluwa Esther Obafemi (01:25:12.307)
Thank you for having me.