Leadership Hacks: How to Influence & Command Respect At Work

 Think leadership is just for managers? Think again. True influence isn’t about titles—it’s about impact. 💡 

Unlock the secrets of effective leadership and learn how to wield influence without holding a formal title. In this episode, we delve into actionable strategies that empower you to lead confidently, foster authentic connections, and drive impactful change within your organization. Whether you're aiming to boost your career growth, enhance team dynamics, or cultivate a culture of trust and commitment, these insights are designed to elevate your leadership journey.​

Key Takeaways:

• Embracing authenticity and honesty in leadership roles.​
• Building commitment and fostering a shared mission among team members.​
• Navigating challenges and turning them into opportunities for growth.​
• Enhancing communication skills to effectively convey vision and purpose.​

Tune in to discover how you can command success and inspire those around you, regardless of your position.

Transcript

Olajumoke Fatoki (00:00)
All right, all right. Welcome everyone to this week's episode of the Thrive Careers podcast. My name is Oladj Moke Fatuki and today we are in for a treat. Joining me is Therese Miklo, a dynamic leadership consultant and the co-author of the book, The Facilitation Advantage.

a practical guide for leaders looking to boost their confidence, communication, and influence. Therese has over two decades of experience transforming leadership pipelines for global brands. With a master's degree in industrial and organizational psychology, she's known for turning complex challenges into simple, actionable strategies that delivers measurable impact.

Therese Miclot (00:43)
it.

Olajumoke Fatoki (00:55)
Get ready to uncover how you can lead, inspire and thrive even when you're not officially in charge. Let's dive in. Hi Therese, welcome to the Thrive Careers podcast. We are so excited to have you.

Therese Miclot (01:07)
 Hello. Me too.

I'm excited for this conversation.

Olajumoke Fatoki (01:15)
Fantastic. So to get us started, could you share a little bit about, you know, your journey into leadership development and what inspired you to focus on this space?

Therese Miclot (01:28)
Sure. Well, my story starts actually when I was 13 years old and I had kind of the unfortunate experience, life experience of my father passing away rather unexpectedly. Left my mom with three teenagers to raise. I was the middle child, which is never the easiest child to raise. Anyway, we had to all get jobs. And one of my jobs was to work in a library.

And at the time that I was working in a library and I would come home from my job and my mom would come home, I would recognize how hard of a day she had. And it wasn't even necessarily the work itself, but it was the work environment, the kinds of supervisors that she had that weren't clear or weren't supportive or didn't give good direction or were unfair or...

you know, all the bad things that sometimes supervisors can be. And so I had this fortune to, you know, be able to slip away into the library. And that's where I found in the career section this kind of study of industrial organizational psychology. And it was at that point where I felt it was like my calling at a still weird young age that I really wanted to make better leaders.

because I could see what happened when they weren't good because it affects your life. You don't leave it at the job, you bring it home to your family. And so it really set me on a path of study and my career to focus on how to make better leaders.

Olajumoke Fatoki (03:02)
Absolutely.

Fantastic, fantastic. And to think that you got that at an early age of 13, that's really impressive. And you know, no wonder you've been able to accomplish all that you've been able to do. Well done, Therese. So, so happy to hear that story. Really inspiring. All right, so we have a tradition on this show and you know, this goes to all our guests that we bring on the platform. We have a fun icebreaker question that we always ask.

And that is, if your career journey were to be a movie, what would the title be? And if you like, tell us why.

Therese Miclot (03:51)
Okay.

There's probably many movies that are flashing before my eyes, but I think the first thing that comes to my mind is the movie It's a Wonderful Life. And I guess that's what popped in first. Not because it was a perfect life or perfect career or an easy journey. That wasn't for me and I don't think it is for most of us. But I think that sometimes our skills and our resilience is forged.

Olajumoke Fatoki (04:00)
Hmm.

Therese Miclot (04:21)
during tough times, whether that's just an unexpected career change or a difficult project. so overall, I feel that even in my tough...

moments along my career journey that keeping a perspective that it's still it's still a wonderful discovery. It's still I'm still happy to be learning and growing even on the days when you know I didn't want to get out of bed and go to work. It can still be wonderful. So that's my movie.

Olajumoke Fatoki (04:54)
I love

it, I love it, I love it. know, positivity, optimism, I love it. We all need a dose of that, you know, to keep going into this world. So that's fantastic. Thank you so much, you know, for bringing that to the fore and I love the movie title. All right, so we are getting into, you know, the juicy part of our conversation and...

I know that our guest is ready. Guys, you're going to learn a lot from this session, I promise you. So if you haven't gotten your notepads ready, I would implore you, you know, start doing that right now. All right, so our first call conversation for today is...

What does it mean exactly, you know, when you're not officially, to lead when you're not officially in charge? And how do you define influence without authority?

Therese Miclot (05:55)
Yeah,

I think it's so relatable for most of us, right? No matter kind of what role we're at, we are faced with the challenge of needing to get things done through others.

that may not be, that may be peers, they're not our direct reports. We may not have any direct reports, but we're responsible for getting things done with and through others. And I think that's universal. I don't know many jobs, many careers where, you you can just blanketly tell people what to do or make things happen. And so I think, you know, influencing without authority is this reality that we're going to have to get good at knowing how to navigate relationships.

and knowing how to work with other people who might have different priorities, different pressures, different motivations. And we have to find a way to be able to help align ourselves to those people so that we can get things done when we don't have any other levers like telling people, you have to because I'm your boss or because so and so said you need to do it.

We have to be able to find our ways to create connection and collaborate well.

Olajumoke Fatoki (07:10)
Amazing amazing. So I have a follow-up to that question, right? And I know that we have a cross-generation, you know of listeners to our podcasts and but I want to address this question to the early career professionals because They tend to struggle with this the most So how can early career professionals start to cultivate these mindsets? You know that even if they had entry-level roles, you know

they can still lead without without having the title.

Therese Miclot (07:46)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Well, I think you just pointed out the first mindset I think the Self-talk that we have to have which is the chatter in our head, right? most of us talk to ourselves all the time and it starts there because if your mindset is it doesn't matter what I say, no one will listen or It's useless to try to change people's minds or you know, who am I? I'm just you know starting my career. What do I know? then

That mindset will lead you down the path to not showing up with a lot of confidence or credibility. And earlier in your career, you want to be able to set a foundation where you may not have all the answers. Yeah, you may not have the power, but you can be in a really good mindset of, learning.

Like I am, you know, I may not have the answers, but I'm going to get really good at understanding what's the business priority. How is my leader thinking? If I'm having to influence someone else, what's their point of view? And so just shifting your thinking opens you up to getting a lot more information, which then you can use to to influence.

Olajumoke Fatoki (09:04)
Amazing amazing, you know one key thing that stood out for me there is You know being open to learning and I am an advocate of you know lifelong learning So you don't need to have it all together, but you know openers to learning You know the willingness and the readiness to learn can really you know help and you know Help and it can really go a long way in helping to achieve this. So yeah, thank you

Thank you for sharing that perspective and I love that you're really keeping it straight to the point and enjoying the flow. Alright, so let's move to the second question. What are the key characteristics or behaviors that allow someone to show up as a leader in any situation?

Therese Miclot (09:57)
Mm-hmm. I think the first one might sound counterintuitive because most people think well you better say something smart, right? You better know all the facts. You better have all the details and while that's important to show up as you know someone who's knowledgeable I actually think the place to start is to be a good listener

Olajumoke Fatoki (10:02)
Hmm.

Hmm.

Therese Miclot (10:18)
And it's counterintuitive, right? Because like, wait, I'm just going to sit back and listen. Well, listening is a very active behavior when it's done well. Meaning that you're not just necessarily listening to the facts that people are saying, but you're listening below the surface. So what's driving someone's point of view? Or what are their values or motives? Because when I can understand at a deeper level, I have a better perspective on which I can...

you know, make some choices about offering my point of view or making someone feel heard and understood. So listening first is the skill I think that everyone needs as a foundation for leadership. Another skill would be around how you engage with presence. So I was just helping someone who's just starting their career and they said, you know what, I get nervous, I ramble.

Olajumoke Fatoki (11:12)
Hmm.

Therese Miclot (11:13)
You know,

like I feel like I lose my train of thought and I speak a lot and I speak really fast. And one of the things that I'm helping him do is how do you make your point more concise and crisper so that when you're in rooms with more senior people, that reads as more confident.

more of a leadership behavior. So how you engage with presence and listen are the two places I think to start.

Olajumoke Fatoki (11:44)
Fantastic, really fantastic points. So active listening and I didn't see that coming, right? You know, it's like the best place to start and you know, I agree with you. A lot of times, you know, we don't listen, we...

Therese Miclot (11:50)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Olajumoke Fatoki (12:01)
We don't listen really and if we can really engage, know in active listening just like you have said I think is going to make a world of difference and you know to the second point that you made Building a presence that you know, that is unforgettable, you know leaving that leadership in print If you could help us, you know drill down a bit more on that because I feel like that is like the meat of our conversation today You know how people can really step up into?

Therese Miclot (12:10)
Yeah.

Olajumoke Fatoki (12:31)
And show up, you know with a presence that cannot be deniable You know regardless of their titles Of course when leaders show up somehow people get to respect them because of their titles But of course we are speaking today about you know, even though you do not have those titles Can you still command a an executive presence or you know a presence in any room that you show up to? So if you could help us, you know share more practical insights as to how

Therese Miclot (12:35)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Olajumoke Fatoki (13:01)
people can make that happen for themselves.

Therese Miclot (13:03)
Yeah. Yeah, for

sure. And I think the happy news for us all is that I'm not going to give you do's and don'ts. Like, don't do this or do this, because I think it's much more nuanced. And because executive presence arises from something deeply wired in us as human beings. When we started to walk the earth, as human beings, we were looking for signals.

from other humans to decide who should we follow, because who's gonna keep us safe? Who's gonna find a source of food? Who's gonna protect us? And that deep wiring in us hasn't really gone away. And so in the book, The Facilitation Advantage, we talk about status behaviors. And status behaviors are just these signals that we send to people that indicate that...

Olajumoke Fatoki (13:52)
Hmm.

Therese Miclot (13:57)
you know, we're someone who's credible that we should follow that we should listen to. And I think the really great part of it is it's not trying to like, you know, you know, show up, you know, as higher status than other people. It's to match status with the people that you're interacting with. So for instance, let's say that you are in a meeting and there's more senior people and maybe you have in this meeting, you know, a update, a status update, low status behaviors.

would be something like this. You're not making eye contact. You are rambling. You're, you know, shrugging your shoulders. You're not, you know, showing up, you know, even just how your body language indicates. You're saying things like, well, we're, you know, we're still trying to figure out all the information, but, or you're asking permission. Would it be okay if we moved to the next topic? Now, if you're with senior people,

Those aren't signals that match behaviors with more senior people. So instead, what, you know, be doing the opposite, making eye contact. You know, if you get nervous when you speak, pause more. Because pausing sends a signal that you're not scrambling for time, even though the clock's ticking and you might only have five minutes. But it shows up as you are more confident. Instead of asking permission,

you make more of a statement. Let's move to the next slide now. Instead of, is it okay if we move on? Instead of lowering your status by saying, well, you know, I'm still new and I'm still figuring this out, but, which lowers your status, you can just say, here's what I know to be true right now. And those are matching your behaviors with people who are more senior.

Now, let's say you happen to be in charge of the new summer interns coming in and they are brand new. Your job there is to match status with them. So you wouldn't show up very commanding because you're trying to make them feel comfortable. So you might be a little bit more casual, right? You may ask more questions and so on. So that's this point of that it's nuanced. It's not a

Olajumoke Fatoki (15:53)
Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

Therese Miclot (16:19)
do this in all cases or don't do this in all cases.

Olajumoke Fatoki (16:23)
Amazing. That's like an entire master class. Wow.

You know status matching I have never heard of that and I think that's really phenomenal and the practicality of it. It's very usable, you know understanding The room that you found yourself when you have to match behaviors with people who are higher than you the kind of you know, your Disposition your carriage and you made it really very, you know relatable with the examples that you gave You know how you speak in meetings?

The choice of words, you know, so instead of asking for permission, but making bold statements commands, you know shows confidence. That's really powerful. Really powerful. Thank you so much. You know for I'm glad that I added that follow-up question, you know, and you were able to help us to break it down even further. That's really beautiful. Thank you so much. I'm glad that I know that our listeners, you know would benefit from that experience.

That was really, really good. Thank you so much. All right, so moving on. What's one characteristics you see underutilized in teams? You know, that could instantly boost leadership presence.

Therese Miclot (17:34)
Okay.

inside teams? Well, I think one that happens all the time, you know, think about how many meetings most of us are in all day more than we'd like. And so I think one is how you operate inside a team. So I'll give you two, two tips. One is send an agenda before the meeting. And it sounds so simple, but if you look at your calendar and think of how many meetings do I have and

Olajumoke Fatoki (17:50)
Yes.

Therese Miclot (18:18)
We haven't really defined exactly what we're going to do in this meeting, especially recurring meetings where it's easy to kind of just forget to set out an agenda. That's one way you can start to help a team operate with higher performance. It's just like, let's all get on the same page with what are we trying to solve for in this meeting? A second tip I give you is oftentimes there's a lot of people talking in meetings, but back to listening, not a lot of listening.

Olajumoke Fatoki (18:46)
Hmm.

Therese Miclot (18:46)
And

so another way that you could infuse leadership into your teams is to be the ear. So for instance, sometimes people are in like violent agreement. They're all saying the same thing, just a different version of the same thing. You could say, you know what? It does sound like we're all in agreement. So let's go to the next topic. You can short circuit moments when teams go round and round and round.

And that's just through good listening to be able to notice what's happening in the group and be able to call it out. So those are those are two things. I'll give you a third one. And that is like watching for body language because, you know, most of our communication is nonverbal. And even in virtual meetings, right, you can probably notice the signal when a team member crosses their arms, looks down, rolls their eyes.

Olajumoke Fatoki (19:28)
Okay.

Hmm.

Therese Miclot (19:43)
And oftentimes we just blow past it. But if as a team leader calling that out and saying, Trice, you know what? I wish we were together. What's going through your mind right now is better than blowing past it because has this ever happened to you where there's the meeting after the meeting? You know, like.

Olajumoke Fatoki (20:04)
Mm-hmm, yeah.

Therese Miclot (20:06)
Okay, we had a team meeting

and then it ended and then we all find our way into so and so's cube to be like, can you believe that? Do they really think that's gonna happen? can you imagine when they said that, right? That's the meeting after the meeting. A good team leader is able to spot the micro behaviors that need to be addressed in the meeting and to create the psychological safety for people, for you to be able to, you know.

allow people to say what they need to say without fear of retribution or being, you know, you know, called out.

Olajumoke Fatoki (20:44)
Fantastic, fantastic. Really simple, know, but very.

effective I must say, you know, so setting an agenda for meetings shows that you know, you know what you're doing There is a focus that you know, there's a reason why you're gathering I think that's the the kind of impression it gives you know when you set up an agenda for meetings and again, you know active listening showing up the sec for the second time in our conversation today You know a lot more people need to listen And it's it's no wonder that it keeps coming up. So yeah

Therese Miclot (21:16)
Okay.

Olajumoke Fatoki (21:20)
you know, listening attentively, you know, for things being said and things not said, you know, in meetings. And, you know, lastly, creating that psychological safety, you know, where people can really express themselves so that you don't fall into the trap of, you know, another meeting after meeting. Thank you so much, Therese. That was really practical, you know, and useful. Thank you. All right, so moving on.

Therese Miclot (21:26)
Yes.

Olajumoke Fatoki (21:54)
Let's talk a little bit about, you know, hybrid and remote teams since they, you know, they are what we in today's world, you know, they are becoming more and more common. A lot of organizations are going into hybrid, you know, and remote work, remote work environment. So what are some trust building skills that leaders can start using today, especially in such environments, hybrid and remote teams?

Therese Miclot (22:09)
Mm-hmm.

Thank

Yeah.

Sure. I think that it calls on us to be really good at drawing people out. Whether, you know, maybe half the team is virtual, half the team is in person. And here's what I see a lot. you know, leaders will express frustration to me, like, you know, I have to leave this meeting or this presentation, but no one ever talks. You know, it's like, you know, pulling teeth to get people to engage. And I think it's very easy to blame the group.

like, because they're virtual or because half of us is virtual and not. But it doesn't really help you in any way to blame the group because often there's things you could be doing differently to engage hybrid teams and have them more engaged in any kinds of conversations. Here's my one tip. Is the quality of the questions you ask.

Olajumoke Fatoki (23:04)
Right.

Therese Miclot (23:15)
So for instance, if you want engagement, but your primary question to people after you, let's say, present something is, does anybody have any questions? Any questions? And all you hear is crickets, the silence. It's the quality of that question that's the problem. What do you think when you hear, do you have any questions? What's your opinion when you hear that?

Olajumoke Fatoki (23:42)
any questions? Like it's so vague and yeah, it could be, it's not targeted, you know, it's just open-ended. So.

Therese Miclot (23:47)
Right. Yeah, right.

Yeah, exactly.

It's like any questions about what? About what you started with 10 minutes ago or now? So it's vague, it's hard to answer, and also we've become so immune to that question we don't even really believe that you're curious. It's just kind of a throwaway question.

Olajumoke Fatoki (23:58)
Exactly.

Hmm.

Therese Miclot (24:16)
And so if you want to engage more virtual teams or hybrid teams, ask a different question, something that's more curious. For instance, you might say, all right, so I talked a lot about what the plan will be for the next quarter. What do you think we have to do to make sure that happens? Or when you think about all that we have to do in addition to this, how do you think we are going to need to support each other differently?

Or what's exciting to you about this plan? So a couple things. One, they're open ended questions, right? So they require more than a yes or no. But even more than that, it requires people to think. Like, huh, yeah, I guess I wonder, I wonder how we are going to pull this off with everything else on our plate. Because let's have that conversation now. Because I want to be able to work through obstacles in this meeting, not

you know, hear about it three weeks later when people are like, well, like we couldn't get it done because we had all these other things to do. So that would be my number one trick is you've got to be more curious and ask a better question than the simple, do you have any questions?

Olajumoke Fatoki (25:32)
That's amazing. That is amazing. And I hope our listeners can really hear this, you know, and I think this, this is really game changing. This is a game changing technique because the staple, do you have any question is what everybody still throws around. And you know, I like how you started the quality of the question that you ask. So if you can ask more specific questions, you'll get better results. I'm not going to flog that. So thank you so much.

Therese Miclot (25:50)
Yeah.

Sure.

Olajumoke Fatoki (26:02)
Alright, so our core question number three for today. How can professionals build trust and credibility to enhance their influence in teams or organizations?

Therese Miclot (26:16)
Yeah, so I think trust and credibility starts with people seeing you as someone to follow. That they want to engage with you, they want to seek you out. And I think when you distill that down to like, well what practically can I do? I think it's that when people feel that you hear and understand them.

They're more likely to tell you more information. They're more likely to involve you. They're more likely to see you as someone that's not just transactional, but someone who is more collaborative.

and more about team performance. And so I think that sometimes it's about we focus a lot on ourselves. How do I look? How did I sound? Did everybody think this was a good thing to say? And if you can turn that focus away from yourself and to other people, and again, notice and listen to verbalizing what are other people saying.

It's an instant credibility boost. And here's the great thing, especially if you're early in your career, you don't have to have all the answers. No, first of all, no one does. But two, sometimes I think we falsely believe that the only way I'm going to be trustworthy and I'm going to be an influential leader is if I have all the answers right. And I think it should be refreshing for you to all know, of course, you have to be developing your domain expertise.

But I work with a lot of exceptional technologists, engineers, brilliant scientists. And when they become leaders, they realize it's not enough. They've been solely relying on their domain expertise and understanding of their craft. When they've been overlooking all of these skills of engaging with presence and managing your mindset and listening well and knowing how to run meetings. So if you can learn that early in your career,

Olajumoke Fatoki (28:20)
Hmm.

Therese Miclot (28:24)
you're already setting yourself for a good career trajectory.

Olajumoke Fatoki (28:30)
Amazing, amazing, know, building credibility. Thank you so much, you know, for sharing that thoughts with us. And I'm sure, I'm sure that, you know, that would resonate with as many as tune in into this podcast today. All right. So, okay.

All right, so moving to the fourth question is, what communication techniques are most effective for inspiring and guiding others without formal authority?

Therese Miclot (29:13)
think the first thing is that before, let's say you have to give it an update or a presentation, let's say, sometimes it's easy to start with like, okay, I gotta get my slides together, I have to, you know, script it or get my notes together. And I would suggest you start at a different point. And the point you should start at is to step into the shoes of the people you're trying to influence. Like really step out of like what you need and think about

What are their pain points? What are their concerns? What do they need? What are their priorities? Because if you can start there, then the words you use or the deck of slides, whatever, is going to sync up to what they need instead of just expressing what you need. And if you can just start there,

not thinking about how do I get the words right, but like what do they really care about? What are their concerns? What are their priorities? Now you're in a better mindset to be able to present or engage with people. And here's the thing, let's say you're really early in career and you're like, how would I know? I don't interact with this leader a lot. I have no idea. Then part of your prep is to go ask other people that.

Olajumoke Fatoki (30:36)
exactly what was going on.

Therese Miclot (30:42)
You know, it's like I have to present to You know Barbara, but I don't ever have any interaction with Barbara. Okay. Well, then who do I know that might know Barbara? That I could call up or text and just say hey What are her biggest pain points or what matters to her around this topic that I'm going to present and Now you can frame your message your you know presentation around that

Olajumoke Fatoki (31:11)
Fantastic. So you can leverage people basically. You don't need to have all the answers, you but there's someone who knows someone that can give you information and you can prepare well, you know, and show up appropriately with all of those information. Thank you. Thank you so much. I love that. I love that. All right. So.

Therese Miclot (31:12)
Thanks for watching.

Olajumoke Fatoki (31:37)
Are there some communication mistakes that some leaders make that can hinder their influence? Are there common communication mistakes that you can share with us?

Therese Miclot (31:47)
Yeah.

I think some of them I already shared, know, listening, presenting, being more concise. I think that another one is, and I saw this happen not too long ago in a meeting where the leader actually was trying to draw people out and they were getting people to talk. And one of the questions that somebody from the audience asked was, you know, is this really going to happen in 2025?

And the leader just simply answered, yes, it's going to happen. This is a priority. But it was a missed moment because there was a question underneath that question. It wasn't really, is this going to happen in 2025? What was under the surface, what the person really wanted to know was we have five different priorities that we all said are going to happen this year. And

historically we've taken on too much and can't deliver everything. So how is it going to be different this time? That was the real question, but that's not where the conversation went. It was a ping pong. Is this going to happen? Yes, and move on. And so I think it was just a missed opportunity for that leader to really address what was the main concern. And so

That's, think, a real communication skill is to really ask the second question, right? So the second question could have been, yes, it's going to happen in 2025. What concerns do you have? Or what makes you wonder that?

And then that person probably would have said, well, we have five different priorities and we kind of try to do too much and we end up in chaos. And so that's a masterful thing to do is not play at the surface, but really try to stay curious with the person to understand more.

Olajumoke Fatoki (33:50)
you

Fantastic. I heard you and you know, for me, heard vulnerability as a leader as well, because I mean, that question.

Therese Miclot (34:11)
Yeah.

Olajumoke Fatoki (34:15)
I'm just putting myself in the place of that leader. feel like he knows the question, but maybe for some reasons he doesn't have the answers and would rather not, you know, go down that route and that's him not trying to be vulnerable. So this question is unplanned, but based on your response, is there any role that vulnerability plays in leadership?

Therese Miclot (34:20)
Yeah.

gosh, that's such a good question and a hundred percent. And I think this is back to this false belief that we should show up as perfect and have all the right answers and know exactly what to say. And no one's like that. That's not authenticity for most people. And so I've seen some very, very senior C-suite executives show their vulnerability in a way that made other people that much more connected to them.

and motivated by them. And it's this reality of, look, mean, no one has a crystal ball. like, you know, that, you know, when you can show up as saying, you know, that, you know, we're still learning, we're still learning. And part of the reason that we have all of you involved is to make even better choices because we have more voices and more points of view. And I just think we crave that in leaders.

Olajumoke Fatoki (35:12)
Hmm.

Therese Miclot (35:34)
you know, wow, okay, no one's perfect. You don't have to express, you know, this ideal state of being perfect. I don't either. And that when you're in an environment where you feel like, okay, I can make mistakes. And as long as they're in the frame of I'm learning, then you're going to continue to take more big bold moves and risks and that grows an organization.

Olajumoke Fatoki (36:02)
Amazing. Again, I have a spontaneous follow up question to that because I have seen organizations where...

Therese Miclot (36:06)
Yeah.

Olajumoke Fatoki (36:12)
when there is a mistake, know, someone's head would have to roll. You know, someone has to take the fall for it. So in that environment, people try to throw other people under the bus. No one wants to take responsibility. know, things, things happen and you know, just because people don't want to be, they want to take the blame, you know, for it. So it's difficult to really be vulnerable in such environments, even as a leader.

Therese Miclot (36:24)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Olajumoke Fatoki (36:42)
You know,

so my question is what kind of you know, supportive environments can organizations put in place? You know to help some of those things that we've talked about so employees don't begin to feel or if you know if I show up as my authentic self You know, I could get blamed, you know at the end of the day I could even lose my job So is there any role the organizations should play in this, you know in helping people?

Therese Miclot (36:49)
Thank

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely. In fact, it's necessary to change a culture of fear to one of innovation and risk taking. And it has to be tied to what's the business priority, what's the business strategy, right? So if the business is trying to innovate and capitalize on AI, for instance, and grow, then you need to reset what does good leadership look like. And the more that's behavioral, so for instance,

Olajumoke Fatoki (37:12)
Yeah.

Therese Miclot (37:36)
that a behavior you might want all leaders to demonstrate is that they empower talent. And how do you empower talent? Well, you give them the ability to try things and not be perfect. You give them feedback and positive feedback. You listen and you coach. an organization fundamentally has to create the structures and the frameworks where leaders understand that how they're going to be measured

isn't just by the what. So I can be a great salesperson and I might be able to, you know, have the, you know, biggest sales of the year. But if I'm difficult to work with and people don't even want to, when they see me coming, they recoil, they want to, you know, do anything but work with me, that's a problem. And so the companies that understand that we've got to measure the what and the how, how you go about.

developing people. How you go about encouraging appropriate risk taking has to be measured and it has to be a part of performance management. Because if it's not, then it's just words on a wall and everybody knows that's really not the truth about how we operate here.

Olajumoke Fatoki (38:53)
Fantastic. Yet this is going to be my last, promise. But every response you give, you know, trigger something in me and reminds me of my previous experience. And I really want our listeners to learn, you know, from this because that's really what this podcast is all about. So I have worked in environments where, you know, you spoke about performance management, you spoke about, you know, this whole thing being an organizational culture thing. I've seen environments where we have high performance

they are delivering in terms of numbers but when it comes to their behavior people don't like to work with them you know I've had an experience where some employees you know

Therese Miclot (39:30)
you

Yeah.

Olajumoke Fatoki (39:37)
Reporting to the same line manager turned in their resignation letters all on the same day but this Line manager is a top performer in the organization and was a really tough decision for the organization You know on what to do. How do you advise you know to go about such situations?

Therese Miclot (39:43)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. I think that what measured gets done as the saying goes and I think that one we have to kind of give people the grace to say look we used a different measuring stick before and the measuring stick was purely on you know whatever you produced and that that was what success looked like.

And now we're evolving. And why are we evolving? Because of the direction of the business. Not because it's nice to do, not because we just are, you know, one big happy family, but a business driver is connected to our shift in terms of how we measure success at the leadership level. And so it's re-educating the organization around what used to be okay.

is no longer going to be okay. And then usually when I work with companies on that, it's also about building skill because it's only fair if you're going to hold leaders to new standard, that you give them the skills to be able to do that. Because again, what gets measured gets done. humans are very smart animals. Our behavior will align with where our rewards are.

Olajumoke Fatoki (40:59)
Hmm.

Therese Miclot (41:16)
And so it has to start at the top. It can't be an HR initiative. It has to be connected to our business direction and strategy is requiring different things of our leaders.

Olajumoke Fatoki (41:29)
Fantastic. One thing, know, so everything you said valid, you know, but for me, the thing that, you know, sort of did it for me is when you said, you know, you can't hold your leaders to high standards and not equip them, you know, with the right skills to deliver at that level. So at the organizational level, if you're looking at that shift in terms of your culture, then you should also be equipping your leaders with the right skills, you know, so that their reason align.

And you know, that's really powerful. Thank you. Thank you so much. So now we can move on from this question. Interesting. All right. All right.

Okay, so...

What role does facilitation play in helping leaders enhance their confidence and influence? So you can share highlights from the facilitation advantage, you know, and just give practical examples of how facilitation transforms team dynamics, you know, and stuff like that, yeah.

Therese Miclot (42:43)
Well,

here's the big secret that's not so much of a secret. Everything we've been talking about, me, falls under facilitation skills. Because facilitation skills aren't something reserved for trainers or professional facilitators who come in and run a meeting. They're everyday skills when we have to be able to work with other people.

Olajumoke Fatoki (42:48)
Yeah

Hmm.

Therese Miclot (43:11)
And so in the book, we've uncovered what are the 10 skills, we call them contributions, because they're the gifts you bring into any situation or any conversation. And they're a way for you to have a touchstone to where should you be developing. So I think of facilitation as just a series of choices. And the more you have choice when you're caught off guard.

You're asked a question you weren't expecting. You have to present in a high-stakes situation. The more you have choice of what to do, the better you're going to show up with influence and credibility. So for instance, in any moment, let's say you can see people are starting to lose interest or not stay engaged, you could do a variety of choices. One, take a break. Two, stop just talking and giving information. Tell a story.

So story is one of the facilitation skills because story is sticky. And let's say you're the eighth meeting of the day, everybody's tired and you want to give a lot of information and you can notice. try telling a story or another choice is stop talking and ask those curious questions. And so the goal of the book is to enable anyone who has to work and collaborate with other people.

Olajumoke Fatoki (44:16)
Mm-hmm.

Therese Miclot (44:38)
to have clarity on what are the highest leverage things they could be doing to increase their impact. And we have a free tool on the Facilitation Advantage website. It's a self-assessment. And it will give you a quick little read on where should I be focusing.

Should I really be focusing on my mindset? Should I be focusing on becoming a better storyteller? Or engaging with presence? Or knowing how to adapt my approach for different audiences? So I'm a big fan of not trying to do everything at once because that's overwhelming and everybody's busy. But this website and the free tool can give you a lens into the one or two things to work on.

Olajumoke Fatoki (45:21)
Fantastic. That sounds like an amazing song. All right. You know, I love the progression, know, but the first thing that you said, which is...

What I made of it is paying attention to those subtle clues, know, clues that's okay, this is this at this point in time, you know, what can I do to keep my audience engaged? You know, and you know the things that you shared whether to share a story, you know, whether to take a pause. But when people are not paying attention and the focus is just on themselves, they miss out on such, you know, opportunities. And at the end of the day, they do not get value

for putting together that meeting. So yes, and of course the tools that you also talk about and I hope that our listeners after now will be able to go to your website and take advantage of what that tool can do. All right. Okay.

Therese Miclot (46:24)
Yeah, I'd love for one more thing to your listeners. That

is find me on LinkedIn. And I post multiple times a week on just practical tips that my goal is that you can use immediately in your next meeting. you know, connect with me on LinkedIn.

Olajumoke Fatoki (46:42)
Okay.

Definitely, definitely. And we're going to talk about that very soon. All right. So what advice would you give to someone who wants to lead effectively, regardless of their position in an organization?

Therese Miclot (47:03)
think it's to know that you can lead from any seat at the table. know, and sometimes it's, you know, we think, well, I can't be a leader until I have the title, or I can't be a leader until I have direct reports, and I don't believe that's true. I think that you can have a voice, you can have influence from any seat that you're at. It's gotta start with how you see yourself first.

Olajumoke Fatoki (47:24)
Mm-hmm.

Therese Miclot (47:32)
and then use the skills from the facilitation advantage to be able to show up as a leader.

Olajumoke Fatoki (47:39)
Fantastic. All right. So I think that brings us to the end of our call questions for today. It's been a fantastic learning opportunity.

relearning as well, know, exposure to different concepts that I didn't even know before now, like the behavior matching or is the status matching? I think that was really profound. One key takeaway for me from this session. All right, but before I let you go, so let's quickly take our rapid fire questions.

What's stand out what's a standout leadership moment for from your career that inspires you? So this is fun and engaging one word and we can move What's a standout leadership moment for you from your career, yeah

Therese Miclot (48:26)
One, say it again, one word that.

the moments where I was thrown into the deep end of the pool and I was on the edge of my knowledge and I had support around me so that I wasn't going to drown.

Olajumoke Fatoki (48:48)
Amazing. Supports are very helpful and powerful. All right. Do you have a favorite leadership quote or mantra?

Therese Miclot (48:58)
I'll take one from a woman that I've worked with for most of my career. She's the founder of a company called Proteus International that I'm an affiliate to. And she taught this to me and I love it. And she said, it's the quote from Michelangelo that I'm still learning. And I just think that if you have a mantra like that of I'm still learning,

then throughout your career and your life you'll have a positive lens on all the things that happen.

Olajumoke Fatoki (49:35)
That's powerful. I'm still learning. That's powerful. And the last one, what's one leadership book aside from your own that you would recommend for our listeners?

Therese Miclot (49:47)
I'll tell you one of my favorites and it's called Chatter and it's a book about mindset. It's about how you manage the chatter in your brains and I think we can all benefit from learning how to master that more effectively.

Olajumoke Fatoki (50:03)
Fantastic. That brings us to the end of this conversation. Thank you so much Therese for sharing such powerful insights today. Your wisdom on leading without authority, building trust, leveraging facilitation is exactly what many of our listeners needs to hear right now. So to connect with you Therese, can you tell us, you know, how people can connect with you? Yeah. And how they can also grab a copy of your book.

Therese Miclot (50:27)
Yeah, sure.

Yes, absolutely. So go to the facilitationadvantage.com. Again, the free self-assessment is there. Also ways that we can work together from individual coaching to workshops. And then find me on LinkedIn. Like I said, I'm very active on LinkedIn. And it's a quick way to get maybe a little burst of ideas and practical tips regularly.

Olajumoke Fatoki (50:54)
Fantastic. So what would be your key takeaway to our listeners today? What will be your final words as we wrap up this session?

Therese Miclot (51:02)
Yeah, think it's back to like you, you can lead from any spot in the room. You don't have to wait for a title or, you know, direct reports that you have more capability in you than you might think.

Olajumoke Fatoki (51:19)
Fantastic. All right. Thank you so much listeners for tuning into today's episode and if today's episode resonated with you, please be sure to share it with a friend and Leave us a review. It helps others to discover the show and grow their careers and until I come your way again next time Remember no matter your title you have the power to lead inspire and thrive. See you on the next episode